Seth Berkley: HIV and flu — the vaccine strategy


Do you worry about what is going to kill you? Heart disease, cancer, a car accident? Most of us worry about things we can’t control, like war, terrorism, the tragic earthquake that just occurred in Haiti. But what really threatens humanity? A few years ago, Professor Vaclav Smil tried to calculate the probability of sudden disasters large enough to change history. He called these, “massively fatal discontinuities,” meaning that they could kill up to 100 million people in the next 50 years. He looked at the odds of another world war, of a massive volcanic eruption, even of an asteroid hitting the Earth. But he placed the likelihood of one such event above all others at close to 100 percent, and that is a severe flu pandemic. Now, you might think of flu as just a really bad cold, but it can be a death sentence. Every year, 36,000 people in the United States die of seasonal flu. In the developing world, the data is much sketchier but the death toll is almost certainly higher. You know, the problem is if this virus occasionally mutates so dramatically, it essentially is a new virus and then we get a pandemic. In 1918, a new virus appeared that killed some 50 to 100 million people. It spread like wildfire and some died within hours of developing symptoms. Are we safer today? Well, we seem to have dodged the deadly pandemic this year that most of us feared, but this threat could reappear at any time. The good news is that we’re at a moment in time when science, technology, globalization is converging to create an unprecedented possibility: the possibility to make history by preventing infectious diseases that still account for one-fifth of all deaths and countless misery on Earth. We can do this. We’re already preventing millions of deaths with existing vaccines, and if we get these to more people, we can certainly save more lives. But with new or better vaccines for malaria, TB, HIV, pneumonia, diarrhea, flu, we could end suffering that has been on the Earth since the beginning of time. So, I’m here to trumpet vaccines for you. But first, I have to explain why they’re important because vaccines, the power of them, is really like a whisper. When they work, they can make history, but after a while you can barely hear them. Now, some of us are old enough to have a small, circular scar on our arms from an inoculation we received as children. But when was the last time you worried about smallpox, a disease that killed half a billion people last century and no longer is with us? Or polio? How many of you remember the iron lung? We don’t see scenes like this anymore because of vaccines. Now, it’s interesting because there are 30-odd diseases that can be treated with vaccines now, but we’re still threatened by things like HIV and flu. Why is that? Well, here’s the dirty little secret. Until recently, we haven’t had to know exactly how a vaccine worked. We knew they worked through old-fashioned trial and error. You took a pathogen, you modified it, you injected it into a person or an animal and you saw what happened. This worked well for most pathogens, somewhat well for crafty bugs like flu, but not at all for HIV, for which humans have no natural immunity. So let’s explore how vaccines work. They basically create a cache of weapons for your immune system which you can deploy when needed. Now, when you get a viral infection, what normally happens is it takes days or weeks for your body to fight back at full strength, and that might be too late. When you’re pre-immunized, what happens is you have forces in your body pre-trained to recognize and defeat specific foes. So that’s really how vaccines work. Now, let’s take a look at a video that we’re debuting at TED, for the first time, on how an effective HIV vaccine might work. (Music) Narrator: A vaccine trains the body in advance how to recognize and neutralize a specific invader. After HIV penetrates the body’s mucosal barriers, it infects immune cells to replicate. The invader draws the attention of the immune system’s front-line troops. Dendritic cells, or macrophages, capture the virus and display pieces of it. Memory cells generated by the HIV vaccine are activated when they learn HIV is present from the front-line troops. These memory cells immediately deploy the exact weapons needed. Memory B cells turn into plasma cells, which produce wave after wave of the specific antibodies that latch onto HIV to prevent it from infecting cells, while squadrons of killer T cells seek out and destroy cells that are already HIV infected. The virus is defeated. Without a vaccine, these responses would have taken more than a week. By that time, the battle against HIV would already have been lost. Seth Berkley: Really cool video, isn’t it? The antibodies you just saw in this video, in action, are the ones that make most vaccines work. So the real question then is: How do we ensure that your body makes the exact ones that we need to protect against flu and HIV? The principal challenge for both of these viruses is that they’re always changing. So let’s take a look at the flu virus. In this rendering of the flu virus, these different colored spikes are what it uses to infect you. And also, what the antibodies use is a handle to essentially grab and neutralize the virus. When these mutate, they change their shape, and the antibodies don’t know what they’re looking at anymore. So that’s why every year you can catch a slightly different strain of flu. It’s also why in the spring, we have to make a best guess at which three strains are going to prevail the next year, put those into a single vaccine and rush those into production for the fall. Even worse, the most common influenza — influenza A — also infects animals that live in close proximity to humans, and they can recombine in those particular animals. In addition, wild aquatic birds carry all known strains of influenza. So, you’ve got this situation: In 2003, we had an H5N1 virus that jumped from birds into humans in a few isolated cases with an apparent mortality rate of 70 percent. Now luckily, that particular virus, although very scary at the time, did not transmit from person to person very easily. This year’s H1N1 threat was actually a human, avian, swine mixture that arose in Mexico. It was easily transmitted, but, luckily, was pretty mild. And so, in a sense, our luck is holding out, but you know, another wild bird could fly over at anytime. Now let’s take a look at HIV. As variable as flu is, HIV makes flu look like the Rock of Gibraltar. The virus that causes AIDS is the trickiest pathogen scientists have ever confronted. It mutates furiously, it has decoys to evade the immune system, it attacks the very cells that are trying to fight it and it quickly hides itself in your genome. Here’s a slide looking at the genetic variation of flu and comparing that to HIV, a much wilder target. In the video a moment ago, you saw fleets of new viruses launching from infected cells. Now realize that in a recently infected person, there are millions of these ships; each one is just slightly different. Finding a weapon that recognizes and sinks all of them makes the job that much harder. Now, in the 27 years since HIV was identified as the cause of AIDS, we’ve developed more drugs to treat HIV than all other viruses put together. These drugs aren’t cures, but they represent a huge triumph of science because they take away the automatic death sentence from a diagnosis of HIV, at least for those who can access them. The vaccine effort though is really quite different. Large companies moved away from it because they thought the science was so difficult and vaccines were seen as poor business. Many thought that it was just impossible to make an AIDS vaccine, but today, evidence tells us otherwise. In September, we had surprising but exciting findings from a clinical trial that took place in Thailand. For the first time, we saw an AIDS vaccine work in humans — albeit, quite modestly — and that particular vaccine was made almost a decade ago. Newer concepts and early testing now show even greater promise in the best of our animal models. But in the past few months, researchers have also isolated several new broadly neutralizing antibodies from the blood of an HIV infected individual. Now, what does this mean? We saw earlier that HIV is highly variable, that a broad neutralizing antibody latches on and disables multiple variations of the virus. If you take these and you put them in the best of our monkey models, they provide full protection from infection. In addition, these researchers found a new site on HIV where the antibodies can grab onto, and what’s so special about this spot is that it changes very little as the virus mutates. It’s like, as many times as the virus changes its clothes, it’s still wearing the same socks, and now our job is to make sure we get the body to really hate those socks. So what we’ve got is a situation. The Thai results tell us we can make an AIDS vaccine, and the antibody findings tell us how we might do that. This strategy, working backwards from an antibody to create a vaccine candidate, has never been done before in vaccine research. It’s called retro-vaccinology, and its implications extend way beyond that of just HIV. So think of it this way. We’ve got these new antibodies we’ve identified, and we know that they latch onto many, many variations of the virus. We know that they have to latch onto a specific part, so if we can figure out the precise structure of that part, present that through a vaccine, what we hope is we can prompt your immune system to make these matching antibodies. And that would create a universal HIV vaccine. Now, it sounds easier than it is because the structure actually looks more like this blue antibody diagram attached to its yellow binding site, and as you can imagine, these three-dimensional structures are much harder to work on. And if you guys have ideas to help us solve this, we’d love to hear about it. But, you know, the research that has occurred from HIV now has really helped with innovation with other diseases. So for instance, a biotechnology company has now found broadly neutralizing antibodies to influenza, as well as a new antibody target on the flu virus. They’re currently making a cocktail — an antibody cocktail — that can be used to treat severe, overwhelming cases of flu. In the longer term, what they can do is use these tools of retro-vaccinology to make a preventive flu vaccine. Now, retro-vaccinology is just one technique within the ambit of so-called rational vaccine design. Let me give you another example. We talked about before the H and N spikes on the surface of the flu virus. Notice these other, smaller protuberances. These are largely hidden from the immune system. Now it turns out that these spots also don’t change much when the virus mutates. If you can cripple these with specific antibodies, you could cripple all versions of the flu. So far, animal tests indicate that such a vaccine could prevent severe disease, although you might get a mild case. So if this works in humans, what we’re talking about is a universal flu vaccine, one that doesn’t need to change every year and would remove the threat of death. We really could think of flu, then, as just a bad cold. Of course, the best vaccine imaginable is only valuable to the extent we get it to everyone who needs it. So to do that, we have to combine smart vaccine design with smart production methods and, of course, smart delivery methods. So I want you to think back a few months ago. In June, the World Health Organization declared the first global flu pandemic in 41 years. The U.S. government promised 150 million doses of vaccine by October 15th for the flu peak. Vaccines were promised to developing countries. Hundreds of millions of dollars were spent and flowed to accelerating vaccine manufacturing. So what happened? Well, we first figured out how to make flu vaccines, how to produce them, in the early 1940s. It was a slow, cumbersome process that depended on chicken eggs, millions of living chicken eggs. Viruses only grow in living things, and so it turned out that, for flu, chicken eggs worked really well. For most strains, you could get one to two doses of vaccine per egg. Luckily for us, we live in an era of breathtaking biomedical advances. So today, we get our flu vaccines from … chicken eggs, (Laughter) hundreds of millions of chicken eggs. Almost nothing has changed. The system is reliable but the problem is you never know how well a strain is going to grow. This year’s swine flu strain grew very poorly in early production: basically .6 doses per egg. So, here’s an alarming thought. What if that wild bird flies by again? You could see an avian strain that would infect the poultry flocks, and then we would have no eggs for our vaccines. So, Dan [Barber], if you want billions of chicken pellets for your fish farm, I know where to get them. So right now, the world can produce about 350 million doses of flu vaccine for the three strains, and we can up that to about 1.2 billion doses if we want to target a single variant like swine flu. But this assumes that our factories are humming because, in 2004, the U.S. supply was cut in half by contamination at one single plant. And the process still takes more than half a year. So are we better prepared than we were in 1918? Well, with the new technologies emerging now, I hope we can say definitively, “Yes.” Imagine we could produce enough flu vaccine for everyone in the entire world for less than half of what we’re currently spending now in the United States. With a range of new technologies, we could. Here’s an example: A company I’m engaged with has found a specific piece of the H spike of flu that sparks the immune system. If you lop this off and attach it to the tail of a different bacterium, which creates a vigorous immune response, they’ve created a very powerful flu fighter. This vaccine is so small it can be grown in a common bacteria, E. coli. Now, as you know, bacteria reproduce quickly — it’s like making yogurt — and so we could produce enough swine origin flu for the entire world in a few factories, in a few weeks, with no eggs, for a fraction of the cost of current methods. (Applause) So here’s a comparison of several of these new vaccine technologies. And, aside from the radically increased production and huge cost savings — for example, the E. coli method I just talked about — look at the time saved: this would be lives saved. The developing world, mostly left out of the current response, sees the potential of these alternate technologies and they’re leapfrogging the West. India, Mexico and others are already making experimental flu vaccines, and they may be the first place we see these vaccines in use. Because these technologies are so efficient and relatively cheap, billions of people can have access to lifesaving vaccines if we can figure out how to deliver them. Now think of where this leads us. New infectious diseases appear or reappear every few years. Some day, perhaps soon, we’ll have a virus that is going to threaten all of us. Will we be quick enough to react before millions die? Luckily, this year’s flu was relatively mild. I say, “luckily” in part because virtually no one in the developing world was vaccinated. So if we have the political and financial foresight to sustain our investments, we will master these and new tools of vaccinology, and with these tools we can produce enough vaccine for everyone at low cost and ensure healthy productive lives. No longer must flu have to kill half a million people a year. No longer does AIDS need to kill two million a year. No longer do the poor and vulnerable need to be threatened by infectious diseases, or indeed, anybody. Instead of having Vaclav Smil’s “massively fatal discontinuity” of life, we can ensure the continuity of life. What the world needs now are these new vaccines, and we can make it happen. Thank you very much. (Applause) Chris Anderson: Thank you. (Applause) Thank you. So, the science is changing. In your mind, Seth — I mean, you must dream about this — what is the kind of time scale on, let’s start with HIV, for a game-changing vaccine that’s actually out there and usable? SB: The game change can come at any time, because the problem we have now is we’ve shown we can get a vaccine to work in humans; we just need a better one. And with these types of antibodies, we know humans can make them. So, if we can figure out how to do that, then we have the vaccine, and what’s interesting is there already is some evidence that we’re beginning to crack that problem. So, the challenge is full speed ahead. CA: In your gut, do you think it’s probably going to be at least another five years? SB: You know, everybody says it’s 10 years, but it’s been 10 years every 10 years. So I hate to put a timeline on scientific innovation, but the investments that have occurred are now paying dividends. CA: And that’s the same with universal flu vaccine, the same kind of thing? SB: I think flu is different. I think what happened with flu is we’ve got a bunch — I just showed some of this — a bunch of really cool and useful technologies that are ready to go now. They look good. The problem has been that, what we did is we invested in traditional technologies because that’s what we were comfortable with. You also can use adjuvants, which are chemicals you mix. That’s what Europe is doing, so we could have diluted out our supply of flu and made more available, but, going back to what Michael Specter said, the anti-vaccine crowd didn’t really want that to happen. CA: And malaria’s even further behind? SB: No, malaria, there is a candidate that actually showed efficacy in an earlier trial and is currently in phase three trials now. It probably isn’t the perfect vaccine, but it’s moving along. CA: Seth, most of us do work where every month, we produce something; we get that kind of gratification. You’ve been slaving away at this for more than a decade, and I salute you and your colleagues for what you do. The world needs people like you. Thank you. SB: Thank you. (Applause)

100 thoughts on “Seth Berkley: HIV and flu — the vaccine strategy

  1. @Chumkil anybody that takes youtube comments as gospel is pretty retarded. luckily they can't catch aids no matter how dumb they are.

  2. okay, what is the "other" bacterium they are slicing that piece of flu virus on, and why is he comparing it to yogurt and calling it growing like bacteria does when it is a virus and I always thought that viruses were very different from bacteria??

  3. @47f0
    You answered your own question! Why would any pharmaceutical company want a healthy population? They would have less customers!! Never mind, go back to sleep, take your vaccine like a good little citizen. The Australian government recent abandoned the flu vaccine program because of all the deaths and sickness it was causing. Golf war syndrome has been confirmed by scientific journals as a result of vaccines given to troops. I guess you just need to stop confusing marketing with education.

  4. @drealm

    OK, You are right…

    None of the world's intelligence agency's would monitor anything that happens on Youtube or anything anyone does or says on the internet.

    How foolish of me!!!

    Yes, our governments love us all and want the best for us. They respect our privacy and are concerned for all our well being.

    No more conspiracy theories for me.

    Let's all sing "Hail to the chief"

    I feel much better now that I am a dumbed down, brain dead, gullible zombie, like you!!

  5. @themindminder Can you list one conspiracy you've ever critically looked at and rejected after new evidence surfaced to contradict it? Probably not. With you guys, it's all about supporting ideas that are contingent on acceptance to the rebel group. Keep playing your little rebellion, like 47f0 said, you nuts are the new religion.

  6. @florencelovme So what's your point? You're saying vaccines are bad, but they saved your life, and.. yeah, I'm confused.

    I'll throw it out at you this way: You're admitting you're different, medically, what with the mirror neurons bit, but then blame the change in how you behaved at eleven.

    Soooo… Anything else happen at 11 that could change how you behaved?

  7. @Mrmoc7 Obviously you don't know this subject very well. Your a mindless sheeple if you think HIV causes anything. Catch up please, read something out of the mainstream.

  8. I want to be studied, I've never had a flu shot and I've never had the flu (as far as I know neither have any of my genetic siblings). I'm not arguing with this knowledge in anyway shape or form, I just think we need to start studying the people who don't get sick and figure out why. I think it could possibly be a quicker solution. I am probably wrong though it's an idea.

  9. @ScientiaVeritasEtLux But if you look at the research thats very far from the truth.

    The considerable evidence that HIV doesn’t cause AIDS includes:
    — Lack of correlation between HIV numbers and AIDS numbers
    — No correlation among “viral load”, CD4 counts, and clinical prognosis
    — Published data on deaths and “infections” show no sign of purported latent period: “infection”, symptoms, deaths all show the same age distribution peaking in early middle age

  10. @mottdog2002

    — Failure of every vaccine trial
    — Failure of every microbicide, even those containing antiretroviral drugs
    — Constant number of “HIV-positive” Americans for three decades
    — Constant demographics of “HIV” by age. race, and sex
    — No actually observed sexual transmission
    — Condom use has no effect on incidence of “HIV-positive”
    — Pregnant women more likely to become “HIV-positive”
    — Health-care workers at no risk of infection

  11. @drealm
    I can name a few debunked conspiracy theorys
    1: The moon landings… they happened… conspiracy theory fail.
    2: Port Aurthur massacre… definitely a deranged madman acting alone . Another conspiracy theory fail.

    Check out the TED talk by Bill Gates. Listen to him say that even using vaccines they can only hope for a small reduction in the population. Even TED talks admit that vaccines are used for population reduction and fools like you choose to ignore the evidence.

  12. @Lily2U1515

    Viruses and bacteria are very different. What he said was it was so small you can grow it IN e.coli bacteria (instead of growing it in an egg), so you could grow the bacteria (with the virus, with the flu bit spliced on, that will act as the vaccine) as easily as a yoghurt culture. Hope this clarifies it ^_^

  13. WTF is it with people blindly parroting some piece of BS they've read on the net somewhere and then calling people who read actual scientific research 'sheeple'?? Yeah, right – way to use your critical facilities! No-one puts anything untrue on the websites/forums you like, but the entire scientific community has managed to overcome the huge logistical organisational/co-operative hurdles, in secret, in order to conspire to pull the wool over the eyes of us poor schmucks…

    Love the TED vids ^_^

  14. @47f0

    SOooooooo true! I'd go even further and say that economies as a whole are structured to DISCOURAGE a reduced population since the strength of one is measured by the GDP – the more people are out there spending, the 'stronger' the economy! It's in the best interests to the people at the top (the only ones in a position to execute such a conspiracy) to have a very large, poor, population base to make money from.

    I also agree about 'lazy scepticism'. So much faith involved in it…

  15. @mottdog2002 I'll acknowledge these points in a private message. There's too much to cover in a few 500-character comments.

  16. @Chumkil
    Go and tell the Australian government, who just abandoned the H1N1 flu vaccine program because of the high rate death and disease it was causing. (A Google search will show that it has been reported in all the media).
    I guess the Australian government is now a part of the anti-vaccine crowd.

    Those crazy conspiracy theory nuts, next thing they will be telling us there are no WMDs!!! (How many 100,000s of innocent women and children have been slaughtered so far in Iraq/Afghanistan?

  17. @G12002

    The Australian government has just abandoned the H1N1 vaccine because of the death and disease it was causing.

    You had better contact Kevin Rudd (Australian Prime Minister) and advise him to stop listening to single mothers and stupid celebrities.

  18. @0Krusnik0, you'll probably be panicking in your death-bed then. Many recent disease threats haven't turned into pandemics because swift action was taken to limit their spread.

    Unfortunately people have the following attitude:

    1 – When a government takes drastic action to contain a new disease: "You govt types are just fear-mongers out to steal my freedom!"

    2 – When the government sits on its ass and does nothing: "You didn't do your job! You didn't protect us! Burn 'em!"

  19. @mottdog2002 I would argue nearly all those points are meaningless because they apply to both (IE failures of vaccines hit's both, laws of probability would lead to a bias of people getting most infections as they get older). HIV and AIDs numbers won't have to correlate, most people get AIDs years after HIV, so there are plenty of ways for people to die before AIDs develops.

    For you points on "Viral loads" and published data on deaths, I think you are gunna need citations.

  20. @DoomsdayR3sistance But I suspect there will be other sources that dramatically vary from that, because this sounds like a list made up by people just trying to string up reasons it can't be, not reasons that it isn't… in such cases you tend to find it is and certainly AIDS which is a syndrone does appear to have a strong link to being caused by HIV, however this doesn't mean that HIV would be the only (potential) cause.

  21. @mottdog2002 you have no idea what you are talking about are you from the Mid-west? i bet you thing the world is flat and that jesus is going to return too right?
    I am so glad people like you are not apart of the scientific community!

  22. @kissmyfarmer

    Disease isn't "good for population control", in countires where disease is rampant people need to have more children to ensure they'll have children who survive to adulthood to care for the parents when they are old. That's a major reason first world birth rates are lower than developing countries. Vaccination programmes will help curb high populations. As well as alleviating human suffering, which is important.

  23. @thejobloshow – my friend, have you thought this through? If people stopped having sex with monkeys, your dating options would evaporate faster than a snowball in a blast furnace.

  24. @PattyGilMo – Patty, I highly recommend you consider the source of the crap you're contaminating your brain with. You only get one brain, and funneling sewage into it can't be a good thing. A) It's common for a segment of any population to have some immunity to a pathogen – that's kind of how evolution works. B) No one is adding diseases to AIDS – it's an immunodeficiency, and makes the individual susceptible to almost anything out there. C) Try watching the vid – HIV mutation is extreme.

  25. @Gameboob – gee, you know what – and the real cause of all those deaths is heart failure. Yep, you've cracked it all right.
    .
    A clue, Mr. Boob – pneumonia is a condition, not a disease, and it absolutely can be caused by chemical exposure, autoimmune disorders, or the freaking flu.

  26. @mottdog2002 – man, you are so right. I mean, it's like trying to establish a connection between your illiteracy and your ignorance – you really can't prove one causes the other.
    .
    And it's time we got real about the phony connection between car crashes and fatalities. People don't die from car crashes. They die from losing blood, missing brains and being incinerated. The numbers between people being incinerated, for example, and car crashes don't match, so car crashes can't be a cause.

  27. @Lily2U1515 He didn't explain that well. In this case a protein on the outer coat of the virus is what we want the immune system to see & attack. The gene for that virus outer coat protein can be inserted into the DNA of the bacteria,so that it makes a protein, with a virus protein part stuck on. The body attacks the bacteria strongly, so lots of immune cells make antibodies against it,some of which will be specific for the virus part.So when you get the real virus you recognise it and fight it

  28. @PattyGilMo Hi! The virus attacks T-cells. HIV takes over the energy and protein making machinery etc. so that they work for virus replication, not the human host cel. This leaves the cell unable to function properly and keep itself alive. Also, HIV mutates so much a stable site on HIV that can be recognised by the immune system always hasn't been found, this is why there is no vaccine yet. He explains better in this talk if you watch it.

  29. @PattyGilMo …Also, AIDS patients don't have a strong immune system, so they're more likely to pick up new infections or not be able to fight cancers properly. Common killers were identified over time and found to be linked with AIDS.I don't understant your problem with that part.People have large variation in response time to any disease, but all HIV will progress to AIDS given time without treatment.PUBMED is a good source for peer-reviewed science in current HIV research if you want to look.

  30. @PattyGilMo To prove it causes AIDS you'd have to give someone AIDS. I see a blindingly obvious problem with that anyway. Not sure about you, but destroying someone's life isn't worth 50k to me.

  31. @themindminder – You have clue zero about how corporations work. We have abundant evidence from the financial meltdown that greedy, short-sighted fucks will behave that way. Which is kind of good. The first pharma company to cure diabetes will become wealthy beyond the dreams of Midas. And nothing is perfectly safe. Seat belts can kill you. Life-saving surgery can kill you. Vaccines indisputably save more lives than they take. Oh.. and Golf War syndrome just makes you sleep with a lot of women.

  32. @niamhdowling That is a bit of twisted logic. People in third world countries have more children to offset the death rate, help with crops and care for them in old age. It was that way for many thousands of years. Death came from disease, starvation and war. It wasn't a nice balance but it was balance. Then came the missionaries and do-gooders. Each 'educated' them in what they believed was right. When famine or disease struck, their help= overpopulation, more disease, resource depletion

  33. @florencelovme But there is no positive correlation that has been shown in a valid study that autism rates are higher in vaccinated children.

    The only thing you have is "I got this at age [x] and I can't think of anything else so therefore [y] did it."

    I was diagnosed with hearing problems when I was 6. No one else in my family has been diagnosed with inner ear drainage problems. Clearly it was caused by a vaccine I got!

    That's sound logic, right?

  34. this is a worthless discussion. the best defence for these diseases are a healthy diet clean water and moderate exercise… in developing countries it would make more sense to help provide clean water and healthy agriculture (instead of stealing land and using it to grow soil depleting crops like tobacco coffee etc). but then again that will create independence and currently we need nations to depend on us… they are our human test subjects and cheap labour…

  35. @evacuationplanb Yes I know. And HIV has no connection with it. There are AIDS cases without HIV. The tests are garbage.

  36. @DoomsdayR3sistance Actually most people don't get any symptoms years later unless there taking anti-virals like AZT which stop all cell division, The warning labels on the bottles actually says toxic, targets bone marrow. Not a way to build health.

  37. @320iguy Forget were I'm from, or that I'm a Doctor. What did I say that was incorrect? be specific.

  38. @47f0 My illiteracy and your ignorance? Have you even look at any of the research? Or the problems with HIV test? The the deadly drugs like AZT which are cell chain terminators? Didn't think so. Just another sheeple believing the HIV sexually transmitted myth cause TV says so. Get specific.

  39. @mottdog2002 unfortunately just about everything in your initial comment (yes i read it) was fail, i am not a biologist or a Medical physician. so i would have ot point you to a REAL HIV/AIDS researcher DonExodus2 i am sure he has written if not read any papers metered on the subject. my only regret is that i am too ignorant to refute your stupidity…

  40. @mottdog2002 – "The HIV sexually transmitted myth"
    .
    Gee, I have a real moral quandary here. At first I was kind of hoping you'd move to Africa and become a little better informed by fooling around sans raincoat. I imagined your last gasp being, "It's not sexually transmitted".
    .
    Amusing as that was, I realized there were two flaws with that scenario. A) Who'd have you? There are some things even hookers won't do for money. – and B) There's a chance you'd pass it to someone even dumber than you.

  41. @PattyGilMo – well Patty, apparently the websites you haunt are about a quarter-century behind the times. This "particle that has never been proven to exist" has been "proven" since 1981. Its genome (slightly over 9,000 nucleotides) was sequenced shortly after. The H in HIV stands for "human" and species-specific pathogens are common. I could inject you with tobacco mosaic virus all day long and you'd never catch it. We can see the HIV virus destroy t-cells. Do keep up with the class, Patty.

  42. @PattyGilMo – no reputable virologist will give you the runaround on how HIV destroys t-cells. It operates by well-known mechanisms to invade the host cell DNA and turn it into an HIV factory – destroying the host cell in the process. In the case of HIV, the host cell is a human t-cell, and when enough t-cells are eradicated, you are susceptible to a host of opportunistic pathogens and cancers. This is pretty much ancient medical history.

  43. @thejobloshow – actually, I was replying to the easy joke, which is why no one liked you. But hey, cheer up. I have a nice banana for you.

  44. @florencelovme You do, but you're not understanding the point: There is no positive correlation between inner ear drainage and vaccines. Likewise, there is no positive correlation between autism and vaccination.

    The difference between you and I isn't conditions. It's that we both have equal evidence for our cases and you actually think you're right.

    You have your right. You're still wrong.

  45. מעניין אם מכחישי המדע ומתנגדי החיסונים יסכימו לקחת את החיסון לאיידס, אם מדענים יצליחו לפתח אותו.

  46. @47f0
    Golf war syndrome has been linked to the veterans being forced to have anthrax and botulinum vaccines as well as pyridostigmine bromide pills.

    The horrific birth defects endured by defenseless innocent babies , while you ridicule their suffering by saying "Golf War syndrome just makes you sleep with a lot of women" shows the level of pure evil excrement that your brainwashed mind is now capable of.

    Shame on you, may karma be bestowed on you ASAP.

  47. @47f0
    I don't care about spelling , I care about people, especially poor defenseless babies
    Oh, a sentence really shouldn't begin with "But" , it's folk, not folks, and it really should be a comma after surprised and therefore "Illiteracy" should not have a capital "I".

  48. The verdict of the Durban Declaration – signed by over 5,000 of the world's leading scientists, including eleven Nobel prizewinners – says:

    "The evidence that AIDS is caused by HIV is clear-cut, exhaustive, unambiguous and meets the very highest standards of modern science".

  49. @47f0 The CDC admit that less than 25% of AIDS patients in Africa aren't lab tested,

    all aids test kits contain a disclaimer, below are some samples:
    ELISA HIV Antibody Test Kit Insert
    At present there is no recognized standard for establishing the presence and absense of HIV in human blood.

    Western Blot HIV Antibody Test Kit Insert
    A sample that is reactive in both the ELISA screening test and the Western Blot is presumed to be positive for antibody to HIV indicating infection .

  50. @47f0 Again you flap you gums without saying anything. No data, no even a decent response. Are you tens years old?

    If you have had "unprotected sex" at any time, relax, because transmission of whatever the test responds to is under 1/1000.(See studies not gum flapping) Many people, babies especially, spontaneously become HIV negative.

  51. @320iguy No he hasn't but you'd like to think so. What specifically did I get wrong?

    Read anything by Peter Duesberg, PHD, A Nobel Prize nominee for his discovery of oncogenes and pioneer in the field of retroviruses, and the best known of the HIV/AIDS dissidents.

  52. @1madaboutguitar Sir please do not bother me anymore with you ignorance, I am not willng to pull you out of it.. u probably republican lolz

  53. @mottdog2002

    I don't think there is any chance of 47f0 having unprotected sex, or any sex for that matter, unless it is with their hand. i'm also sure that 47f0's mental capacity is similar to an immature 10 year old, however their stubborn refusal to accept any proven and scientifically verified information, indicates that they are a bitter and twisted elderly old women. 🙂

    Go easy on the poor old dear, she has probably lost her ability to reason because of all the mercury in her flu jabs.

  54. @Chumkil

    Here is all the evidence, including government documents, scientific journal references etc.

    Definitive , documented scientific proof that AIDS was a manufactured biological weapon created in a laboratory.

    watch?v=CDxZ7PX8YGI

  55. @florencelovme But what medical studies that aren't slaughtered in the peer review process for bias or improper conduct are showing the correlation?

    Personally, I don't care what people say. I want to see the large scale population effects.

    The reason I don't care a lack of expertise combined with people's infamously poor ability for self diagnosis.

    You haven't even clued in that at 11 you were starting puberty. Durr.

  56. "…not at all for HIV, which humans have no natural immunity…"
    Seth Berkley, please meet delta-32.

  57. This is all bullshit and lies…They haven't cured shit or prevented anything…This guy is only justifying why he and his colleges spent so much money going to school and have that extreme sense of self importance. Because they believe they have solved the mystery of life. There is statistical data on polio and other outbreaks have actually run their course in nature and died off naturally.. Stop giving your power away to these theorist who just want to have all your money and important .

  58. @PattyGilMo

    This is not a theory, it is research using:
    1) Declassified Department of defense congressional records
    2) Scientific papers from Litton Bionetics
    3) National Acadamy of Science Journal and papers written by Robert Gallo.

    This is not zero evidence, It is damning evidence that The AIDS virus was created as a biological weapon and released in Hep B vaccines and targeted at specific communities.

  59. @PattyGilMo

    Thanks for the info, I will read the book you recommended and research further.

    ( Dr Horowitz's website and income generating activities really have nothing to do with this issue, like many people who achieve some sort of celebrity status, he has probably lent his name to endorse various goods and services because like everyone else, he must earn a living.

    I would like to think that Buzz Aldrin is remembered for going to the moon and not for endorsing low fat grills.)

  60. This presentation sounded like 1 part sales pitch, 1 part propaganda, and 1 part truth. 16:15 "A company I'm engaged with…" (where's my stock ticker?!) "…has yadda yadda solved the world's problems" (is the SEC listening?!)

  61. Whole bunch of bullshit! A sales pitch to shift the realization most have come to make: that is, Vaccines have and will kill more then it will EVER save!

    Drugs will never be the solution to curing anything on a massive scale… we are in need of a shift of mindset and habit. Stop eating deadly GM Foods, and feeding on the prescription drugs your doctors ORDER you to take.

    With Love 😉

  62. @nublex hehe… You put a smile on my face this morning Igor… Wishing you a fantastic day 😉

  63. its scary to see in this comments thread how progress and even a small shift in the status quo bring out all the ignorant luddites and their paraoind fears;
    yeah guys, there are conspiracies in this world, there have always been; but vaccines? seriously? are you truly as insanely destructive as to go against the very medical breakthroughs that vanquished some of the scourges that afflicted mankind since times immemorial? go read some medical literature and a history book or two, you dimwits

  64. A vaccine for aids? Hahah yeah right. The fact remains that the knowledge gap between the vaccine consumer and the vaccine producer is so wide that the "guinea pigs" who are taking them have no idea what is being injected in them. Was it meant to be this way? Yeah, you just gotta take their word for it. Also, Hiv vaccines usually end up giving people aids in the end. There havent been any successful trials and i doubt there ever will be.

  65. @1madaboutguitar im talking about you trying to diminish logical thinking haha saying we are trapped for thinking logically.. come on man read a book or go to school already

  66. @WyldOrbit yes and the sun revolves around the earth.. dude, knowledge advances the species.. no vaccine ever that is soo silly to say

  67. @pinochska Yes, knowledge advances the species. If you were forced to iject a vaccine, you should be able to MAKE IT YOURSELF!

  68. @WyldOrbit and there is absolutely no need for me to learn how to make vaccines.. i have other talents and passions that serve other needs maybe of a person that makes vaccines.. its called economy that is why you are alive right now and you didnt make any vaccine of that im sure

  69. @pinochska My point is, is that the education gap between the vaccine makers, and the vaccine guinea pigs is so great, that the vaccine guinea pigs have no clue as to what they are injecting into themselves. Can you imagine a world where sincere effort was put into education for purposes beneficial to mankind rather then purposes beneficial to a few wealthy families and businesses?

  70. @WyldOrbit yes i can imagine such a world.. but just because things are not as good as one might wish.. doesnt mean you have to trash the efforts a few of those good people are making to help mankind.. i dont get it are you for or against vaccines? for or against a few humans doing what they can to help?

  71. @pinochska What is capable of great good is also capable of great evil. Ones subjective morality plays a central role in the use or abuse of technology. When the people who are in possesion/production of tech. are morally inept, that spells trouble for anyone who would have to trust such people. Many people rely on religion or law as a moral barometer. Some people use self reflection as a means to morality. People who use self reflection are smarter then religious nuts and government asskissers

  72. @MannyBombardier Do you have any memory of limping polio victims? Perhaps you are too young. The US once had a polio survivor President. Now it would be hard to find a person who had suffered the disease under 70 years old. I am 52. I remember. Vaccines save LOTS of lives.

  73. @vinny111 I have studied immunology. I also have direct experience working with blood material harvested after vaccination and have observed how the repertoire of antibodies produced changes in response to the vaccine (in short, the mechanisms of acquired immunity). What you are telling me is like telling your auto mechanic that your car engine is driven by mice. I would not waste my time writing this if it were not so important.

  74. this is obviously an old post, it's 35yrs on, they keep saying crap like this every 10yrs if it is as bad as they say it would be solved by now. 35yrs on if it's as contagious as they say how come the whole planet isn't infected by now? because the test had a limit of detection a cut off point of detection. Its a rubbish test hiv is endogenous , you can keep the levels down by eating healthy. What is the real plan of anti virals, what are they creating, how come the haven't attempted to change the virus to so called less damage? Not buying it they are still calling it the aids vaccine he sound do smart yet do dumb with some of the crap he is spouting.
    I'd like it all to end but it probably won't happen in my life time to much money is being made truvada is a very expensive drug and the newer drugs much more. mix the so-called vaccine with the flu vaccine and create a new race of immunosuppressive humans till the next big thing

  75. Apart from natural disasters, greed and the economic system as well as violence and sexual predatingcertainly will … and women, as usual, are and will be the primary victims

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